What makes a good game? [TUTORIAL and HINTS]

For all support and comments on the game "GrassGames' Hearts".
marekjoz
Posts: 27
Joined: Jun 17, 2014

Re: What makes a good game? [TUTORIAL and HINTS]

Post by marekjoz »

7. Do not try to moon all the time

This in most cases is practiced here by newbies, although old foxes do it from time to time as well. Like trying to moon 4 times in a row.

True is that it is not so usual to succeed a moon, when players defended it good. Pure luck at dealing and a bad pass help a lot but when playing against advanced players, such approach does not make a lot of sense, as you will not succeed much more frequently than lose it.

It really totally does not pay off at the end of the day. The best tactics is to have both paths opened - go for a moon and get back safely in case you see it won’t go.

When you will try to moon all the time, other players will get bored as such play would bring any fun only to you. You do not want to be the one, who they would not like to play with, do you?

marekjoz
Posts: 27
Joined: Jun 17, 2014

Re: What makes a good game? [TUTORIAL and HINTS]

Post by marekjoz »

8. Identify where the Queen is

Easy to say, more difficult to achieve. There are hints, which you can use, to identify her.
First of all - who leads spades? Who repeats leading spades? Why something else was played than a spade? Was there an opportunity to drop a Queen by a player (if would have a Queen) but a player has not done it?

Observe and calculate options.

Let’s assume „W” player is low. You passed him 3 cards, no Queen included. You have 6 spades. Will you lead a spade or not? I would say - if you have 6 spades, then it is a low probability, that „W” also had many spades. How many spades is it ok to keep a Queen and not to pass her? I keep her when have 4 other spades. In other case I pass her. Now - what is the probability, that when you have 6 spades, the other player also has at least 5 spades? In my opinion very very low. If so, then even if „W” had a Queen before a pass, most probably already has passed her. You did not have her. All this means, that a Queen is somewhere else and by playing spades, you only help the low.

In accordance to the second tutorial here, when someone has not led a spade does not mean, that it was not suitable for this player. Maybe just cannot play spades, because it would be playing spades to low!

A good indication for a spades shortage or Queen location is avoiding playing spades by a player who is „before” a low as it is usually the best position to play spades.
Last edited by marekjoz on Dec 23, 2017, edited 2 times in total.

marekjoz
Posts: 27
Joined: Jun 17, 2014

Re: What makes a good game? [TUTORIAL and HINTS]

Post by marekjoz »

9. Try to cheat your enemy

Tricky title does not mean you should feel encouraged to start an another account and try to play under another name :-)

The best pat in hearts is, that it is a game on an edge between a common trust among members of a team trying to catch a low and trying to get in lead at the same time. You need to build trust, use other players to fulfil your intentions and to make them playing for you and get in front of them at the same time. You need to make your goal to be their goal too.

Ok, so what about this cheating? Well. Somehow it depends on the side you currently at - either you are low or try to catch the low. There are other stages of the game like the balanced score and the big final, when the rules slightly change. But assuming you have an interest to make another player make a false move, make him think wrong, anticipate wrong etc., you should simply present your cards, hand and position otherwise, than it really is.

In example you are hunted as current low. The player who has a Queen is at your left. He has no more clubs. One round of clubs was played and 3 clubs were dropped. 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 of clubs were not yet played. You have all of them. Instead of playing 3C, you may lay 7C. It would make the low thinking, that it was your lowest club and would make him drop the Queen. You win in this round as you have cheated your enemy and make him think that you and your other opponents had other cards, than they really had.

Just use your imagination how else you can trick other players ;-)

marekjoz
Posts: 27
Joined: Jun 17, 2014

Re: What makes a good game? [TUTORIAL and HINTS]

Post by marekjoz »

10. Do not play a suit, which low already hasn’t

This a very simple rule. When you play a suit, which low already does not have, you help him to get rid of the cards, which are somehow problematic for him. He maybe did not have a Queen, but could have high diamonds, in example. By playing clubs, which he already did not have, you just simply help him get rid of dangerous diamonds. In most cases, if it occurred, that he had not clubs anymore, he also probably did not have a Queen as well, because ehe would have dropped her already (or feels so safe, that catching him might be impossible at all). If you have built enough trust among players, you can easily and safely play other suit as it would be the only chance to catch the low. By playing the suit, not in possess of the low, you just help him and complicate your situation at the same time.

It is not that, it is convenient for you play such a suit. It is really a serious mistake. If everyone would play like that (you in this round and the other player in the next round), then both of you are losing.

marekjoz
Posts: 27
Joined: Jun 17, 2014

Re: What makes a good game? [TUTORIAL and HINTS]

Post by marekjoz »

11. Do not open hearts for low

Hearts are not possible to lead until someone drops a heart first - these rules are here mostly played. Imagine, that the low is the one, who takes the first point. Now he can lead a heart and you do not know, if he tries to moon, or is just kidding. It forces someone to take 4 points to stop him and he gained an advantage for a low price.

If it is possible, open hearts for a high player, as maybe if could also help him to moon, if it is required by you.

marekjoz
Posts: 27
Joined: Jun 17, 2014

Re: What makes a good game? [TUTORIAL and HINTS]

Post by marekjoz »

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to everyone.

Sharing knowledge - as far as I know - should be beneficial for all and could be made by all having something valuable to say.

bohonu
Posts: 4
Joined: Oct 15, 2012

Re: What makes a good game? [TUTORIAL and HINTS]

Post by bohonu »

Marek,
I have never been on the forum before, but if you teach players how to play "Hearts", you have done a great service to participants.
I will reread what you shared, you make some great points in each article it is a great Christmas present to Hearts players all over.
Thank you for taking the time to make "Hearts" a whole lot more fun in each game.
I look forward to playing more good games with you in the near future.
Happy New Year,
Bo

slothcat
Posts: 1
Joined: Oct 10, 2017

Re: What makes a good game? [TUTORIAL and HINTS]

Post by slothcat »

Thanks for posting this tutorial Marek. It is a great public service for this "community" of hearts players. I found it to be a very clear explanation and accurate in the details. I salute your willingness to take the time and mental energy to put it down for all to read.

marekjoz
Posts: 27
Joined: Jun 17, 2014

Re: What makes a good game? [TUTORIAL and HINTS]

Post by marekjoz »

12. Contradictory requirements and unclear conditions

Thank you for good words, as you never can be sure if your actions would be interpreted in accordance to your intentions. I hope Iceman would repair those texts after he returns from Spain, as English is obviously not my mother tongue.

I assume, that 99% of players here would be more than happy to improve their skills and quality of their play as it only gives more fun to all who want participate. An average Hearts game takes about half an hour. It is your time and it should be so much enjoyable as only possible. Investing an hour to will improve your skills and bring you benefits sooner than you could ever expect it.

There are already a few rules and hints I have already published here. There are a lot more. The problem is, that sometimes they can be contradictory to each other and you have to make a difficult choice which way you go.

As an example I will show you what happened today. The score was like 7/14/31/33. I was playing on the „S” position having a Queen, two other spades and 33 points. Player „W” had 14 points. Should I risk taking a Queen with short spades which would make the score 7/14/31/46 or rather give a Queen to the next low (who was almost a regular lo) to make a score board like 7/27/31/33? At this moment you risk two things:
I. You take a Queen and nobody would ever notice your sacrifice at play
II. You give a Queen and they call you a „selfish player never playing low”

Another example: sometimes you need to decide if you have to choose:
1. play spades to low or
2. suit which low already did not have or
3. suit which a Queen holder (not low) already did not have and you risk taking her right after

If you play with good players, with a trust among all you have no fear to play the best option which makes a game „the good game” - the third option. You can do it only when you trust to other players, that they knew what they did and they would choose the best option at the moment to make the score board as even as possible, of course from from their point of view and with their cards in hands.

It is a normal thing, that sometimes the only option is the bad option.

By the way...
I am not writing these all because I would think, that I knew everything and have the right to give others any advices. It is rather because of an observation, that a lot of players lack this knowledge and experience and sometimes also ask for advice. All I want to achieve is to share my experience as others could see it useful for themselves. If you disagree, just do not read or do not apply ;-)
Last edited by marekjoz on Dec 27, 2017, edited 1 time in total.

marekjoz
Posts: 27
Joined: Jun 17, 2014

Re: What makes a good game? [TUTORIAL and HINTS]

Post by marekjoz »

13. Communicate your intentions

Let’s assume - you have 4 spades with an ace and queen. One diamond. You are high. „W” is low and „E” plays a spade to you. What would you do?
Sometimes it is better to keep an Ace to the end to avoid exposing that you also had a Queen. But sometimes it is better to clearly communicate to others in your team, that you had a Queen too. By playing an ace there, you clearly show, that low did not have a Queen (he would drop her on your ace). After taking it with an ace and playing a diamond, you ask your team to repeat a diamond. Good players in your team would take a diamond and play a low one again if they had one. If they would not, it is an information to you, that they had not low diamonds.. or just did not know how to play or were watching tv ;-) If "E" would repeat a spade to you, well... May be too late for a cure for him ;-)

There are many ways to communicate to your team things like that. Consider a team like a temporary group of players in a game linked by a common temporary goal. Good players find a common goal. Bad players just drop their cards…

marekjoz
Posts: 27
Joined: Jun 17, 2014

Re: What makes a good game? [TUTORIAL and HINTS]

Post by marekjoz »

14. Being chased is better than chase with a bad team

It was written here a few things how a team tries to chase a low player and increase his score. It requires however a coordinated team play. If a team is not good enough, i.e. one of the players in the team does not understand the principles of the „low play”, then the frustration arises and bitter words appear.

It means, that very often here it is better to be chased than be in the chasing group, as the roles may never replace there - the low will win and never gets caught. The conclusion is, that after a few rounds of the game it is very important to be as low as only possible. The first 3, 4 rounds create the first chasing group and it is extremely important to be the low in this moment., The less experienced players participate, the more important it is. Very often you can evaluate your situation at start, as you probably may already recognise skills of particular players.

Sometimes the outcome of such situation is, that the inexperienced player reads a lot bad words from players in a team trying to catch the low. The problem is, that he maybe never knew, that he was in any team, trying to catch any low.
Now you have a few options:
1. make gentle remarks, suggesting that there may be lack of a knowledge, skills and experience
2. say really bad words
3. stop playing with this player
4. do nothing

My experience is, that even after choosing option #1, you read in exchange that the player knew already all and you should maybe go and f… y…

Personally i really like to play with all who play good games, are not arrogant or cheaters, want to learn and evolve but also have not problems admitting if there was something wrong or asking what was wrong at least.

marekjoz
Posts: 27
Joined: Jun 17, 2014

Re: What makes a good game? [TUTORIAL and HINTS]

Post by marekjoz »

15. Crime and punishment

Now something about psychological aspects of the game which a lot here don’t take under consideration at all.
I have understood, that in order to be successful here, you need to:
- understand the game
- have some skills
- have a lot of luck
- know how to deal with others

Understand the game - in most cases my previous entries here were about it: what it means to good pass, do not play spades to low, give a moon from time to time etc
Have some skills - ability to focus, remember, count cards, count probabilities of distribution etc
Have a lot of luck - good cards and errors of others’ during critical moments make it a half way to the success. You do not have much influence on a dealer, so we may skip this step ;-) You can influence other players and make them make mistakes but it won’t be covered much in this part.
Deal with others - you do not play in every game alone but your outcome is dependent on others’ play.

So let’s get to the latter in more details. I was playing in many games, where instead of rational, objectively reasonable decisions players made strange moves, basing on their emotions and willingness to take a revenge.

In a game you should rather focus on making the best decision in a very moment considering your cards and the scoreboard. It is rare, when you would need other decision factors like ranking of particular player, weather conditions or how many hours did they sleep at night. It happens however, when you get so angry, that it is more important to you to harm your enemy, than to play low. Yes - enemy. Not a partner in a game or opponent, but the enemy. When you make yourself an enemy in a game, you have it much more complicated as your trust to others and others’ to you is now limited.

It does not cost much to avoid making enemies. When you are low at 10/20/20/50 and it is no difference for you if you wait for second low or not, because your cards allow it but you dump your Queen on the high, then in most cases this player becomes your enemy to the end of the game. It is because he feels, that it was injustice, you gave him away any chance to win and you should have waited for the second low. And you know what? He is right ;-)?
Now the question is if he should have been trying to punish you for this or just let it go. In a long term pros and cons analysis, the fine for a bad behaving player seems to be better, so it does not surprise me, when players make irrational moves against each other.

In this post I just want to share my observation, that when you only can play fair and not strictly against any other player it is only better for you, as the probability of taking this personal is less, so that you make yourself an enemy also decreases.

marekjoz
Posts: 27
Joined: Jun 17, 2014

Re: What makes a good game? [TUTORIAL and HINTS]

Post by marekjoz »

16. Count remaining cards to find out how to play

Thank you for warm words from those, who enjoy this small series of short tutorials. In neither way I do it is to express my advantage. I just still think, that when the level of the games here will be better, all of us will enjoy those games more so it is in my own interest to make it happen. The better you play, the more fun I have playing with you and I am sure also that you more will enjoy your games!

It will be easy for average and advanced players (who will find it for sure this somehow disappointing) but I am sure that beginners might find it interesting.
Let’s consider the following situational case when only 3 cards left in everybody's hands, QS has not been dropped yet and you do not know where she is. 2 low hearts only played before and you want make it best for you. How do you play it?

……..….…....N
……….....….xxx

…W..xxx …………..xxx…E

……..….Kh Qh 3h
………......….S

As you can see, 12 cards remain including the Queen. 2 hearts played so it means there are only hearts and a Queen left. So the player who has the Queen, also must have exactly two hearts. There is also an ace somewhere. You have the King of hearts and the Queen of hearts. Ace of hearts can take only one of them and it means, that you will take for sure at least 4 points. What are other possibilities? If ace of hearts will take your 3 of hearts, then you take also the other hearts on your king and queen of hearts. There are 24 points of total. (13 qs + 11 hearts). There is no way you could take all (ace of heats takes something) and no way you can take 0 points (as explained earlier). So you have one or two takes.
The following combinations are then possibie:
- 4 points - 4 hearts taken on a king OR queen of hearts
- 8 points - 8 hearts taken on a king AND queen of hearts
- 16 points - 3 hearts AND a Queen of spades taken on a king OR queen of hearts
- 20 points - 7 hearts AND a Queen of spades taken on a king AND queen of hearts
It is also possible, that in the second round, the person who has the queen takes with his higher heart (ie jake) anything what was played what was lower and would be forced to play Queen of spades taking it of course at the end. So there is a possibility, that you take nothing, but it requires a good distribution, much luck and error of the player, who had the queen of spades. Let's play for sure, not counting on luck.
How to play it to take only 4 points? The key is your 3 of hearts. Observe, that the queen of spades will be dropped in the last round here after two rounds of hearts. If you will still have 3 of hearts in the last round, there is no way, you could take it, as only one heart is lower than 3 of hearts (2 of hearts) and there are still two hearts left, so one of them will be higher. This is how you can find out after this deduction, that you have to play high hearts earlier and keep the 3 of hearts to the end. Depending on the other cards, which accompany the Ace of hearts, the outcome may be such, that either you take on king OR queen of hearts collecting 8 points or either on the king AND the queen pf hearts, collecting collecting 4 points. Without having it considered earlier, you might be willing play 3 of hearts at start, which would be your biggest mistake here.

This was just an example presenting the approach to solving such puzzle. In reality your situation rarely will be clear as here. There will remain cards of other suits and more combinations will be possible. However when you can observe who had what and what already had not, you can find out at the end how to play to achieve a maximum result.

You cannot beat the cards and if you have bad cards, you can do nothing about it. You can however find an optimal order of playing your cards and know your best possible outcome which you can achieve at current moment with cards you had.

You cannot beat the cards if you have bad cards, but you can beat others by playing it better than your opponents, who had better cards but played it badly.

A good game will be there, where everyone had played at maximum possible result with cards, he had. The satisfying game will be there, where you win knowing, that you have won with your opponents not because you had good cards, but because you played better with your worse cards than your opponents.

marekjoz
Posts: 27
Joined: Jun 17, 2014

Re: What makes a good game? [TUTORIAL and HINTS] (part 16)

Post by marekjoz »

The end.

I am very happy, that this little tutorial was read so often and thank for all the warm words from those, who wanted share their feelings and found these writing useful. The intention behind this project was to share my experience to make the readers play better games and improve their skills. Unfortunately for most here it is more important to gain a higher ranking score than to play better games. I had a few more interesting topics to publish, but in such a case I think that this is it. All nice people can always count on me, anytime they want to ask and look for any advice.

Thank you and see you at a game.

billy
Posts: 23
Joined: Mar 13, 2014

Re: What makes a good game? [TUTORIAL and HINTS] (The End)

Post by billy »

Hi Marek,
I wouldn't normally comment on individual games however a recent game with your good self , Ice & JDFAL gives me an opportunity to do so. As a nice person, myself, I ask your advice. I'm counting on it.
The best time to take a gamble is very early on in games. In this instance I passed JD the KH. I had no other hearts along with a decent selection of high cards in the other suits. An ideal pass back from JD would have given me the opportunity to attempt a moon. I was unaware that he already held A,Q J and other hearts. I obviously didn't get any back so still a chance for me to moon, if the cards played right. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If I'd kept the KH and received none back in return then surely his A would have drawn it out, anyway.
When we were both on 70 and the others were 30/40 I again attempted to moon. I got 24 points and you stopped me by holding Qh back. It did occur to me that by now being on 94, both of our chances were slim of catching other 2 as the next hand would probably end game. If however I'd mooned, I'd have joined the other 2 almost. leaving you on 70 and high. This would have meant at least 2/3 more hands, giving us and you, especially, all a better chance to win. I have tried to post this in a friendly manner, and would hope its accepted as such, but would wonder why that instance doesn't fall into the category of the benefit of allowing a moon to prolong the game.
take care, play again soon.
Billy

bohonu
Posts: 4
Joined: Oct 15, 2012

Re: What makes a good game? [TUTORIAL and HINTS] (The End)

Post by bohonu »

Marek,
Thank you for taking the time to explain your vision of hearts to other players, it is appreciated.
I have learned alot from reading your information and strategy and know for those that can comprehend your information, it would make for better hearts games. The games that go to last hand with all four people having a chance to win.
I look forward to our next game.
Any ideas in assisting so many angry people that are playing hearts?
Thanks,
Bohonu

charelle12
Posts: 1
Joined: Jan 09, 2024

Re: What makes a good game? [TUTORIAL and HINTS]

Post by charelle12 »

Les joueurs utilisent souvent l'expression "gg" (good game) après une partie :lol: , même si toutes les parties ne sont pas nécessairement bonnes. Certains le font par politesse ou habitude. Cependant, pour beaucoup, un bon jeu implique un effort maximal pour obtenir la victoire. Certains joueurs novices peuvent ne pas comprendre cela. La clé est de se concentrer sur la victoire plutôt que sur une place spécifique. Cela s'adresse surtout aux débutants. En fin de compte, le plaisir varie d'une personne à l'autre, mais il est important que tous les joueurs respectent les attentes de chacun pour une expérience agréable. n'hésiter pas a aller voir mon casino en ligne c'est le meilleure d'Europe ahahah il est vraiment bien je me suis super bien amuser dessus et surtout j'ai ganger beaucoup d'argent grace au jeux qu'il propose alors si vous avez du temps n'hesiter pas a aller voir https://parier-online.fr/
Last edited by charelle12 on Mar 01, 2024, edited 1 time in total.

TeacherCute
Posts: 1
Joined: Feb 15, 2024

Re: What makes a good game? [TUTORIAL and HINTS]

Post by TeacherCute »

charelle12 wrote:
Jan 09, 2024
Les joueurs utilisent souvent l'expression "gg" (good game) après une partie :lol: , même si toutes les parties ne sont pas nécessairement bonnes. Certains le font par politesse ou habitude. Cependant, pour beaucoup, un bon phen24 official website jeu implique un effort maximal pour obtenir la victoire. Certains joueurs novices peuvent ne pas comprendre cela. La clé est de se concentrer sur la victoire plutôt que sur une place spécifique. Cela s'adresse surtout aux débutants. En fin de compte, le plaisir varie d'une personne à l'autre, mais il est important que tous les joueurs respectent les attentes de chacun pour une expérience agréable.
I think the more chances before getting a game over sign is the best game every. At least there should be 5 to six try chances before the game over.

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