Version 3 - Suggestions

For all support and comments on the game "GrassGames' Hearts".
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Aidan
Posts: 479
Joined: Jan 17, 2009

Version 3 - Suggestions

Post by Aidan »

I'm working on Version 3 now.

All suggestions on how to improve the game are welcome.

Please post suggestions for any aspect of the game, not just network play and connection problems (which will also be looked into).


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Aidan
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SunnyCorner
Posts: 59
Joined: Nov 17, 2013

Re: Version 3 Suggestions

Post by SunnyCorner »

The lobby.
No activity for a fixed period of time – evict.

Avatars.
Waste of time – suggestion 1 notwithstanding. When you introduced the idea players thought it would be good to “put a face to the name”. We never knew there were so many cats – dogs – horses etc – concept reasonable - in practice useless.

Scoring.
Abandon it or have a monthly competition similar to the patience games scoring. If you must have it then simplify it – a point for a win – nothing for 2 3 4? Any system that creates big gaps will eventually become unwieldy. New players must have the opportunity to get to top – wherever or whatever that is.

Quitting.
Current system seems to work but the difficulty of discerning between a quit and a disconnect remains problematic. I've no suggestion for this.

Payment.
There seems to be two systems operating? Coins and annual subscription? Make it one or the other.

I have now largely retired.

Regards Iceman

cenalex67
Posts: 30
Joined: Jan 02, 2016

Re: Version 3 Suggestions

Post by cenalex67 »

My suggestions:

1. I'd like to see all rules (or only "Shoot the moon") of actual match during entire game. I often saw many players make unnecessary moons when the rule was "Old Moon".

2. I would make 2 scores: General score, like now, and monthly score.

3. A little button to disable or able chat during game or in the lobby.

4. If is that a bug I'd like fix: If I hit "Esc" during game to view rules when I return to the game the cards are scrambled. It happens only to me? Sometimes, ops... often, the game go to be stuck.

5. I already said it in other post: I'd like to see my 3 cards that i'm passing until the end and possibility to correct the pass within a fixed time.

Thanks Alex

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Aidan
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Re: Version 3 Suggestions

Post by Aidan »

Thanks for the suggestions. Some at least will be implemented.

V3 updates so far:

1) The chat system is going to be updated to an extensive menu selection - this is already in progress. I understand that some people won't be happy with this, but others will.

2) The avatar system will be updated too to a face creation system as seen in other games. Expressions will be at least a bit interactive hopefully.

3) The ratings system will be updated to a monthly format. Ratings will be reset at the start of each month. Some way of keeping track of winners / top 10 for the previous 12 months will be implemented.

4) I'm also considering not doing a new iPhone or Android version for a few reasons:
. practically zero sales
. would prefer to work only with larger screen sizes
. phone calls surely interrupt network play
There will however be a new iPad version. And potentially an Xbox version down the road.
Aidan
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jbruch
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Joined: Apr 07, 2016

Re: Version 3 Suggestions

Post by jbruch »

Switching to a monthly rating system sounds like a good idea. I think it would be nice if there is some minimum number of games (15?) that needs to be played to be part of the rating system in a given month but I think it would also be good if the scoring system weighs quality of play more than frequency of play once the number of games threshold is passed. One of the problems with the current scoring system seems to be the weight of frequency of play in the equation having a strong impact vs. win % or quality of play.

I can't argue with the logic to eliminate phone support though it will likely mean losing some quality players like Ace. I find playing with phone players tends to lead to more issues with the system where players get disconnected temporarily or permanantly in the game so this would likely reduce that issue.

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Aidan
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Re: Version 3 Suggestions

Post by Aidan »

Ok sounds interesting. Any ideas then on how to implement quality of play vs. frequency of play?
Aidan
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SunnyCorner
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Joined: Nov 17, 2013

Re: Version 3 Suggestions

Post by SunnyCorner »

Quality v frequency.
The difficulty arises with the definition of “quality” which in a competitive card game will mean the number of wins.

There is no completely “fair” way to do this and all solutions will have drawbacks.
However, one way might be for each player to use the same number of games and then average the scores. This could only be achieved by using the same number of games for each player – for example the last 20 games played in each month – easy to identify and calculate?

I'd suggest using 20 games in a month to qualify for the competition.

Scoring 4 – 2 – 1 – 0 and penalty for quitting as now.

For example a player who plays 100 games a month would still only have the last 20 of those games used to assess their average score.

Regards to all. Iceman

Oscar
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Joined: Apr 06, 2021

Re: Version 3 Suggestions

Post by Oscar »

I wish the history of hands that appears after each hand (in the Mac OS version) would display negative points and scores instead of just representing them with a dash.

SunnyCorner
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Re: Version 3 Suggestions

Post by SunnyCorner »

Regarding interactive avatars!

It fear will add to connection problems and add nothing to the game. Players asked for avatars so they could, “put a face to name” - it clearly didn't work and I don't see the logic of your solution now.

I am very pleased to see the current scoring system abandoned – its well over due and regrettably, all of my predictions made in September and December 2019, have proved entirely correct.

Stopping the chat will stop the abuse – at last!!!!!

What date do you intend launching the new version? There are so few readers of the forum now and its going to come as a big shock to those who's life and status seems to depend on winning at all costs...... It should however result in a slew of new players as everyone has a chance of getting to the top on a monthly basis if thats what they choose to do, and if they can actually play well, rather than often.

Regards Ice

jbruch
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Re: Version 3 Suggestions

Post by jbruch »

I am okay with Ice's scoring suggestion and minimum games to be played on a monthly basis to qualify. The only potential issue with this scoring system is that toward the end of a game a player in 4th may determine they can't win and may play for 3rd rather than winning. I would go ahead with the change but if this playing for 2nd or 3rd starts to be a problem some modification may be needed.

When you make the scoring change it would be nice if you have a message that informs players of the change the first time they log in after the change. If you don't do this it will be very confusing to players since chat is essentially disabled and there is no way to inform them if they don't read the forum.

SunnyCorner
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Re: Version 3 Suggestions

Post by SunnyCorner »

The issue of identity (in the case of machine based gaming) is the continuation of a name and reputation.

This is based on the desire to build a high score and maintain that name over a (long) period of time.

The longer the period of time, the more the imperative to keep playing and maintain that name becomes.

When the period of time becomes shorter, for example one month, the imperative to maintain an identity becomes much less important. In fact I would argue that maintaining an identity will soon become detrimental as it becomes a magnet or target for others seeking to stop that individual from winning. In a shorter, monthly competition, that is both highly possible and very likely.

The result will be (as I said in my earlier post on the subject) a slew of new players as everyone has a chance of getting to the top. I use the term “new” advisedly as many of them will be name changed to avoid detection.

This is very good news as it will stop the merry-go-round of stupidity that we have now and replace with a more accessible game for everyone.

It will take a while for some to notice the impact of the changes but the writing is on the wall for the old order.........

Regards to all - Ice

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Aidan
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Re: Version 3 Suggestions

Post by Aidan »

The new chat is nearly implemented and soon I'll be starting on the new avatars system, then the updates to the scoring system will be done.

It'll be a month or two before things are ready.

All points are being read and taken into consideration so keep them coming.
Aidan
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Aidan
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Re: Version 3 Suggestions

Post by Aidan »

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Aidan
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Aidan
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Re: Version 3 Suggestions

Post by Aidan »

I'd like to see all rules (or only "Shoot the moon") of actual match during entire game. I often saw many players make unnecessary moons when the rule was "Old Moon".
You can check the rules if you press Escape or the 'Menu' button during play - is that not enough?
Aidan
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ChiGuy
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Re: Version 3 Suggestions

Post by ChiGuy »

Interesting comments. I for one would like to see the ability to chat continue. I play with friends (found and made on this site) a lot each day. It is a lot of fun and makes the game feel like playing cards with friends at the same table. For those that chat is irritating, the ability for them to shut off chat makes sense. Also, abuse or nasty comments could then be filtered or not seen. Please keep the ability to chat, to many of us, it is the human aspect that we enjoy. I can play with a computer anytime (boring). I did not know scoring was a 4,2,1,0 system. It does not seem to work each time. I don’t like any points subtracted for a loss. It is fun to see your score go up, a reward for job well done. I agree about kicking “lobby sitters” out of lobby if inactive. Just becomes clutter. I love the game. Thanks for making it fun. Cheers. Scott

cenalex67
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Re: Version 3 Suggestions

Post by cenalex67 »

Hi, Aidan
This is what I meant:
On the right of the screen, for example, a list of main rules: "OLD MOON" etc.
Many players, not me, often don't remember them.

On the left of the screen some buttons, for example, to disable/enable chat or to view history hands.

But the novelty would see or change the cards you are passing until pushing pass button.

what do you think about it?
Thx Alex
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Aidan
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Re: Version 3 Suggestions

Post by Aidan »

There will be some way to see and change cards before you pass them, possibly as in the way you have shown.

The rules idea is also a good one - I'll look into it.

The hands history is something new. What is this exactly? To be able to see all previous rounds in the hand? Or something else?
Aidan
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Aidan
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Re: Version 3 Suggestions

Post by Aidan »

I for one would like to see the ability to chat continue.
The chat menu selection will be quite extensive. But I understand your point.

Well the only way to keep this going would be to have a "Free Text Chat" option available that all players would have to enable before or during a match. This would allow typing in addition to the menu selection. This will probably also need a chat white and blacklist of players to be saved locally so it will be a bit complicated to implement but I think I will do it.

This will give the best of both worlds then. People can turn on the free chat when playing against players they trust, or leave it on always if they are not worried about possible abuse. On the other side, players can turn off the free text chat always if they prefer (default setting), or against certain players, or only enable it when playing certain players.

This "Free Text Chat" option will only be available when playing games. I don't plan to make it available in the lobby. From what I have seen of lobby chats, the chat menu options will suffice.
Aidan
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cenalex67
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Re: Version 3 Suggestions

Post by cenalex67 »

Aidan wrote:
Apr 16, 2021
The hands history is something new. What is this exactly? To be able to see all previous rounds in the hand? Or something else?
Yes, It is interesting for me to see the progress of the game also during the match not "only" after every hand.
Thanks
Alex

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Aidan
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Re: Version 3 Suggestions

Post by Aidan »

So players would be able to turn chat off
No, I don't intend to implement the ability to turn off or hide the chat. And going back to the "Free Text Chat" point I made above, this is something that will be enabled or disabled for all players alike. Enabled if all players agree, disabled for all if even only one player does not want it. The chat via menu selection will always be available regardless.

That's the plan at the moment anyways.
Aidan
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steveamida
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Re: Version 3 - Suggestions

Post by steveamida »

My 2 cents worth. 1. I want to be able to decide who I play with. I don't care that much about who has how many points, but I do much prefer a well played game and know with whom that is more likely than not. 2. I am not much of a 'chatter', but it would be good to allow that if all agree, it adds a social aspect to the game that in these times particularly can be helpful. (this also relates to point 1 btw-I know who is civil and who is not and can opt to play with them or not). If someone is abusive and any one player turns off free chat, there should not be a way to know who made that choice. 3. Tournaments can be fun. Sign up, get randomly assigned to a game, winners move on to next round.

steveamida
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Re: Version 3 - Suggestions

Post by steveamida »

A tournament is simply a supplemental addition to the normal open game play structure. If you choose to be involved in a tourney, you know what the structure is, and decide to enter or not. It's purpose is to add a degree of enjoyment to those who so choose.

I also am opposed to automatically removing those in the lobby who choose to be there while awaiting a game of their choice. It is not like being there is keeping anyone else from entering the lobby or being in a game of their choice. Call me pro choice lol.

Butchdude
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Joined: Sep 21, 2016

Re: Version 3 - Suggestions

Post by Butchdude »

By the time a player reads through Aidan's menu of chat topics and decides which is the most appropriate for the occasion, the player will be timed out. The concept is ridiculous.

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Aidan
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Re: Version 3 - Suggestions

Post by Aidan »

By the time a player reads through Aidan's menu of chat topics and decides which is the most appropriate for the occasion, the player will be timed out.
I don't agree with this. The menu items are all grouped for easy access (e.g. connection -> invite -> "invite me please"), and the more you use it the easier and faster it will get.
The concept is ridiculous.
This is not my concept by the way, it is used in other games also.
Have a button that any player can use to turn off chat. They then see no chat, nor can chat themselves. If 2 players push the button, no further chat is allowed.
This is another option, but I'm not sure if it will work out. If people turn off the chat totally which will happen then that removes all the good things that any chat brings. It also does not solve the abuse problem really as people can keep hurling abusing at each other without disabling the chat. But it is an easier option to implement.

But I think the menu option has to be used anyway as I plan to get the game out onto consoles in the future and they don't have keyboards at all or touch screens. Trying to type out a message by selecting letters using a game controller will not work out. In fact I think that factor will probably decided the outcome of this discussion.
Aidan
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HowCoolIsThat
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Re: Version 3 - Suggestions

Post by HowCoolIsThat »

Here's a suggestion: can you link all of the players in the game to the server in such a way that it's not dependent on the host to keep everyone connected. When a player who is not the host gets disconnected (or quits), a bot comes in. However, when the host gets disconnected (or quits), the game is nullified without any penalty to the host.

Also, if you choose to kill the free chat feature, you're weakening the platform. Just sayin'

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