Version 3 - Ranking Updates

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Aidan
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Joined: Jan 17, 2009

Version 3 - Ranking Updates

Post by Aidan »

Ok going to start working on changes to the ranking system now for Version 3.

I will be implementing a monthly competition and somehow also keep track of winners or top 10 for e.g. the last month or possibly the last year.

Please post your suggestions here. I've read the points in the other threads but more suggestions are welcome. It would be nice also to hear if possible from some players who have been playing a long time but have not voiced their ideas yet.
Aidan
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Aidan
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Re: Version 3 - Ranking Updates

Post by Aidan »

One thing not mentioned much is the people at the top who will lose their current rankings completely when things are switched over to the new version. Are you going to be upset about this? Or looking forward to new challenges? I'll try and keep a high score list or something shown, at least for some time.
Aidan
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HowCoolIsThat
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Joined: Feb 18, 2018

Re: Version 3 - Ranking Updates

Post by HowCoolIsThat »

And how will all these "new and improved" enhancements bring more players into the fold? That should be your primary focus. Naturally, players have determined who they won't play with under any circumstance, i.e. chronic quitters, whiners, lack of skill, etc. As the tribes have withdrawn to their corners of safety and comfort, the lobby becomes a stare-down contest where players have to ask one another, "do you play with (INSERT NAME)?" That doesn't increase the number of players. Try providing free beer and pizza on Fridays. :)

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Aidan
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Re: Version 3 - Ranking Updates

Post by Aidan »

After just going through all the posts here over the years, the vast majority of complaints are about abuse and the rankings system, with disconnection / freezing problems coming in third.

The abuse has being addressed by the new chat system.
I'm re-implementing the rankings system now.

The disconnection / freezing problems I will look into afterwards. The networking system has been re-written already - time will tell if that will help or not.

These fixes and other updates should help bring in more players, and maybe get back some who have left.

I can't make players play with each other, but I'm hoping that more might play together if a) they are sure their ranking will not be affected negatively and b) they are sure they will not get any abuse. Time will tell.
Aidan
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Aidan
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Re: Version 3 - Ranking Updates

Post by Aidan »

The version 3 new rankings system will award 5 points for a win and -20 for quitting a game and nothing else.

The rankings will be reset each month with the current month and previous months rankings being displayed in the lobby.

If anyone has any suggestions about where to offer extra bonus points or some other scenarios for reducing points please let us know - it might spice things up a bit more.
Aidan
GrassGames.com

jbruch
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Joined: Apr 07, 2016

Re: Version 3 - Ranking Updates

Post by jbruch »

Will the monthly play have a set number of games that count toward the rankings? If you don't do something to make it less of an advantage to those that play more then I don't think it makes sense to make any changes. I believe it had been proposed that the monthly rankings be based on a players last 25 games. This seems like a reasonable number that many players play on a monthly basis and for a player that exceeds that number of games played just count their last 25 games.

steveamida
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Joined: Nov 02, 2019

Re: Version 3 - Ranking Updates

Post by steveamida »

How do you know someone quit? If the program freezes is that a quit? How will you know that is what happened? If someones internet glitches, is that a quit? Etc., etc. I never quit. But I have had the above happen. Does not seem fair to lose 4 wins. We know who the quitters are, and we just don't play them.

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Aidan
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Re: Version 3 - Ranking Updates

Post by Aidan »

Points noted. Please keep the discussions coming.

Scoring rules from a real-life Hearts tournament that ran some time ago (link ):
After a round is completed, the scores at each table will be Match Pointed by position as follows:

* First place: 6 Match points
* Second place: 3 Match points
* Third place: 2 Match points
* Fourth place: 1 Match point
Does not agree with the "Winner Takes All" approach that has been suggested and that I was going to use going forward.
Aidan
GrassGames.com

RSN123
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Joined: Oct 23, 2020

Re: Version 3 - Ranking Updates

Post by RSN123 »

How about fixing the load time problems. The app takes so very long to load. No other app that I have used does this. Also the app frequently quits. These issues should be fixed before anything else.

No offense intended but these are very troubling issues.

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Aidan
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Re: Version 3 - Ranking Updates

Post by Aidan »

The app takes so very long to load.
If you have a large number of games in the Statistics section, loading can be slow. There is a fix for this already implemented and will be in V3.
Aidan
GrassGames.com

Matheteacher
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Joined: Dec 06, 2021

Re: Version 3 - Ranking Updates

Post by Matheteacher »

I have been playing a long time. I worked my way up to number 3 in the rankings. I don't mind changing things, but will be disappointed if my efforts to get to number 3 are completely nullified. Having and overall ranking system, a yearly ranking system and a monthly ranking system would please me better and give others a fair chance to be recognized for their good play.

HowCoolIsThat
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Joined: Feb 18, 2018

Re: Version 3 - Ranking Updates

Post by HowCoolIsThat »

I violently agree with what Mathteacher, aka "OG" states regarding Aidan's proposed plan to have a do-over on point rankings every month. Any effort to normalize all the scores into a "tighter band" by starting over every month would be the death knell for Hearts 3. Don't Do It!

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Aidan
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Re: Version 3 - Ranking Updates

Post by Aidan »

Yes I will look into this again in more detail soon. No hard decisions made yet.
Aidan
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cenalex67
Posts: 21
Joined: Jan 02, 2016

Re: Version 3 - Ranking Updates

Post by cenalex67 »

I have already played in other platforms, and there were two rankings there: a monthly and a historic one
Alex

SunnyCorner
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Joined: Nov 17, 2013

Re: Version 3 - Ranking Updates

Post by SunnyCorner »

Lose the rankings - it just puts new players off if they perceive there's no chance ever of getting to the top. It will also stop the petulance and stupidity associated with the fragile egos in the game. It was a much better game before the league tables were brought in Aidan as we can well remember - many many more players then.

Regards Ice

jbruch
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Re: Version 3 - Ranking Updates

Post by jbruch »

I totally disagree with Ice/Sunny.

At one time I thought it would be a good idea to do that but it is not. I would advocate keeping the rankings and adding the monthly winner system.

Players play for a variety of reasons and I don't think you want to make changes that might make more players leave.

I look at the top 10 players and Cenalex, CaptCWD, Irishdan, birillone, lighthorse, and Kirkwood play with virtually anyone from my observation. I will note that lighthorse and Kirkwood have to play with anyone since so many players won't play with them. MATHTEACHER, steveamida, Bulldog and Alar play with players they know have a certain skill level, and from my observation they are not too focused on a players level provided by the ranking system.

I had a game with steveamida, Yoda and StewBaby yesterday. Yoda is a top 15 player. StewBaby has a level of around 2,000 so you would think higher level players would not play with him, but he has been around a long time and just didn't play for a number of months and his level sank to the minimum. We played with him because we know he is a skilled player no matter what his game ranking is and it was a great game which he won and each of us lost more ranking points than we would have if we played someone with less skill but a higher ranking. Great game.

Played a game today with 2 players in top 10 and then myself and the other player are top 30. I had some trepidation joining the game as the other top 30 player is a player that I don't think is very skillful and when the player sees they won't likely win they play for 3rd which is not someone I want to play with. That happened and the top 10 player felt guilty for winning because he knew he won because of poor play. Crappy game. Last straw for me with that player and I will not play with him again. One of the top 10 players told him in the chat they could not play with him again either.

I should add that there is a highly ranked player that won't always play with me even when the other players are highly ranked. They likely don't play with me because they think my skills are not up to par. That is their right.

I have been playing this game a number of years and I have a pretty good idea of who is skilled and who is not. The problem playing with less skilled players is that they will determine the winner through bad play and if you play with them you have to hope they make their typical mistake for you and not another player. Weaker players tend to be predictable in a bad way. That is not a game I enjoy and if I want that I can play with the BOTs.

I often wait in the lobby for a game that I find interesting and challenging and it is not fun waiting, but it is better than playing a game I will regret playing. I think that is my right and other players have the right to play for whatever motivates them. If you take away the ranking system I will keep playing. But I will keep playing with players that I find challenging and turning down offered games where it includes one or more players that I do not find challenging.

I am concerned that if you take the ranking system away we will lose some skilled players and I want more of those not less. If more skilled players leave I will reluctantly join them.

HowCoolIsThat
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Joined: Feb 18, 2018

Re: Version 3 - Ranking Updates

Post by HowCoolIsThat »

More "inane drivel"...again from Sunni Coroner. Keep the ratings Aidan.

Mathteacher
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Joined: Dec 06, 2021

Re: Version 3 - Ranking Updates

Post by Mathteacher »

What I have seen over the years in playing is that there are people that play differently. Some play for social interaction, some play exclusively for themselves, drop the Q without thought to how the person they are dumping on will impact their ability to win, and some people get frustrated or vindictive at the end of the and try to make certain people win of lose.

Those of us that enjoy the game as competition realize the best games happen when the three people that are not low work together to drop the Q on low. We know who the people are we like to play and try to avoid the others. The people that play like we do are usually higher ranked than the others.

To get to the point, it would be nice when you login if you could choose between social.competitive and perhaps a tournament.

I will probably lose interest if the competitive rankings are not available, because they are my motivation to play.

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